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Welcome to Film, Fiction & Criticism Summer 2010
This is a non-chronological, discussion-based class that examines the relationship between literature and film. We’ll explore the aesthetic make-up of masterworks of literature chosen from the novel, the short story and the play, and will focus on the structure and meaning of these literary works. This blog is your place to play with the ideas discussed in class. Enjoy!
Brenda Cudd
ReplyDeleteNoir and Neo-noir is more of a style. It didn't seem to be much of a genre and they both faded to almost non-existent. Film Noir was definitely unpopular, as some being detective films. There are not a lot of those and one only popular one, or at least well know was the recent film Sherlock Holmes, and only cause the character was so well know.
The style is a depressing one, in setting or story line. Some tend to be violent, or have an anti-climax. Very few people will read or watch something that has an anti-climax. In some cases, people just don't enjoy pessimist or cynical people with terrible views on the world. When you go to watch a film, most people want to see something cheerful or at least a happy ending, with some drama here and there.
I agree. The times I have experienced film noir (and even theater noir as in the case of City of Angels) I have not come away feeling uplifted, informed, entertained or even preoccupied. Noir is, for me, not something I would want to experience very often.
ReplyDeleteThe Noir of the fifties and sixties was depressing and cliched. Perhaps we wanted something to keep us from thinking about the Red Menace or our need to have a bomb shelter in every backyard. At any rate, I see this as more of a style and not a very desirable one at that.
I haven't watched much Film Noir, though I watched "The Big Sleep" yesterday and have skimmed through a few other Film Noir films in order to give my two cents...
ReplyDeleteI would call Film Noir a genre because its content is similar across the board, but the style, on the whole, isn't always so distinctive from other black & white classic films.
Fujiwara said we shouldn't speak "nostalgically about rainy streets, hard-boiled detectives, and femmes fatales, [but] how the distinctive styles and themes of the directors in their school [...] produced a group of masterworks." Perhaps Fujiwara was right in stating Noir was merely "the imaginary universe of a certain kind of film lover." But, I think its all interconnected.
I would agree with Fujiwara that Noir is absent from much of modern day cinema. I've not seen "Pulp Fiction," but I have seen "L.A. Confidential," which I enjoyed. I skimmed Robert Altman's "Kansas City" (1996), but it didn't resonate at all in the same way that a Bogart film would have for me. They just don't make movies like they used to. It seems the Noir reign is gone, and the movies made during the 30s, 40s, and 50s should remain there like a treasured time capsule.
Film Noir is a style characterized by general qualities and a limited time frame.Popular for a very short time among filmmakers and only seriously artistic in few instances before it became overplayed and outdone, Noir represents a popular mood among the American people of that time-distrust, cynicism, disenchantment, etc.
ReplyDeleteA unique part of film history, Noir may be clichéd, but it is worth recognizing. The only Noir film I recall watching, but would highly recommend, is Double Indemnity. A classic example of this style, this movie has everything a good Noir should have, and is worth watching in order to get a good understanding of what Noir is all about.
Oops, the above post was by Danielle Dye
ReplyDeleteI would have to that Noir is more of a style of films of the past. pretty much like the articale states from 1940 to about 1960. It just seems that we bestowe the term to more modern films so the phrase film noir doesn't have to leave us. That being said I would agree with Danielle that while it is cliched it still must have some recognition but not perhaps give it an entire genre where films is concerned.
ReplyDeleteWhen hearing the world film noir i didn't understand how much critique this genre portrayed.
ReplyDeleteThis article gave me quite a few understanding to how film noir represents a very
surreal type of film. Film noir's seem to have a controversial status as a genre. Instead of movies
being defined as can be represented as the "swag" of genres. Since the noirs are often defined
by the movies tone or style, instead of its plot or content.
Greetings and salutations class. Andrew Medina here. I don’t think it's fair to say that film noir is all just darkness. There are definitely many more elements to, and signature characteristics of film noir that make it what it is. We expect a certain kind of atmosphere to be present along with certain kinds of characters resulting in a distinct tone and feel. In other words a style.
ReplyDeleteBut as far as genres go, film noir just doesn’t make the cut. To me, movie genres are defined by and revolve around larger themes. Themes such as romance, tragedy, comedy, horror, drama, etc. Film noir just doesn’t boast of the solidity or consistency in what's at it's core to be a genre, or even some sort of a sub-genre. I view it as a style and nothing more. I like how Fujiwara presented a strong case throughout his article for his argument. And I either see validity in, or agree with all of his points.
Alicia Harrell...Film Noir is definitely a style. Although a depressing style, it is a necessary one. Every style of film should be accepted and understood for its own characteristics even if that means it is a depressing one. Film is meant to entertain you for a certain 2 hours or how ever long the film is. Entertainment does not only come in one form. I personally do not like to watch something that is going to depress me, but I suppose a good number of people do because there are plenty of movies like The Godfather that are very popular.
ReplyDeleteNoir is very much a genre to me it's just one that has become slightly cliched, as most genres are subject too. It has its own archtypal characters: a the cynical protagonist (often times a detective), the femme fatale (often a client with hidden motives), and a wide variety of crooks, criminals and gangsters. In my opinion neo noir is simply a form of noir that exists after the Golden Age of Hollywood where the films are in color instead of black and white. Noir itself has helped spawn other sub-genres the most famous would probably be cyber punk (think "Blade Runner") which can be summed up as "Noir of the Future" As for myself my favorite noir films are "The Maltese Falcon", "Dark Passage" and an excellent spoof of the noir genre would be "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" a clever comedy staring Steve Martin which makes use of clips from other noir films.
ReplyDelete-Matt Hecker
I dont know if noir should be considered a genre or not, I think that noir is just as much a genre as westerns, and if the argument is that westerns arent a genre either, then they are definitely both styles of film. In the same way that film noir has its overly repetitive cliches, so do westerns, and that is probably the main reason that there aren't nearly as many movies of either genre today. I also think that Noir films are best made not very often, giving a break from the colorful happy dramas and romantic comedies that tend to flood the box office, they are usually refreshing to watch every now and then, although after breaking this style down so much i think i might get tired of it once i see that type of movie now
ReplyDeleteI would have to disagree with the article that film noir and neo-noir are a genre. I agree with everyone that film noir and neo-noir are more like a style than a genre. The use of darkness in these films is just used as a element whether it be in black and white films or colored films. The genre or style of film noir is usually a type of crime drama that point out different motivations as well as different attitudes. Also in most film noirs you do not see anything happy or a family aspect in these films. Neo-noir is just a more updated version of film noir but you do not see these types fo films anymore nowadays.
ReplyDeleteLauren Smith----
ReplyDeleteI don't really consider neo-noir to be a genre, maaaaaayyyybee a sub-genre though. Film Noir is definitely a genre- there are too many common elements for it not to be. The repeated schemas make it so that you know it is noir right after the credits roll, nearly as soon as the protagonist opens his mouth. When you go to a pop concert, you know you'll hear pop music, and when you go to a blues show, you know you'll hear the blues. The schemas of noir are clearly defined. You know that you'll get a story where people are doing things they never thought they'd have to do to get by (regardless of the fact that their own greed, lust or stupidity got them there). The average person commonly feels as though they are just doing the things they have to do, so we can all relate, but in film noir, these things folks are doing are like concentrated real life; everything is as dramatic as it can be.
But neo-noir is basically just copying already successful themes. The musical equivalent would be Amy Winehouse. Not bad, perhaps, even good, but not as good as the originals.
I feel that Noir, neo-noir is a genre. To me it is not just darkness but rather the darkness and other features of this genre are used to set up the mood and feeling of that particular film. Also, with noir viewers know the basics of what the movie is going to be about and how it is going to be acted. This aspect is the same with any other movie that is operating within a particular genre. For instance, when I go to a thriller I know the music in the background means someone is about to die, just like when I see a noir film I know the beautiful girl is most likely going to be the female fatal.
ReplyDeleteFurther, I feel that many people are hard on film noir because they do not like this type of film. The article did say that the type of person that likes noir is “ typically male, having been born no earlier than 1940 and not much later than 1960, reached the ideally impressionable age of early adolescence in a period when black-and-white American films of the 1940s and '50s were widely shown on TV.” For those that do not fit this description, it could be harder for them to appreciate what film noir has to offer.
Okay, so just to be clear on what constituted a genre I looked up the definition on the Miriam-Webster dictionary:
ReplyDelete- a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content
and by that definition i suppose that Film Noir has to be classified as a genre, if not a particularly creative one. I really wanted to not classify this as a genre, but there it is. I do want to say that the genre is remarkably stale and unsatisfying, and to respond to an earlier post, I DONT want to know what to expect in a film just because it's a particular genre; many films that garner acclaim don't do so by just following the formula that other films in the genre set down. To adhere strictly to any one genre is confining. I'm sorry if that sounded too critical.
-Joey Coble
I would have to say that Film Noir/Neo-Noir is a style. Maybe it could have been a genre back in the 40's, had it continued forward and evolved like all other genres, but about 95% of Film Noir died after the nation got burnt out of detective stories and Femme Fatales. Elements of Film Noir are still used today in certain films, but for the most part it was just a stylistic fad.
ReplyDeletefilm noir is a style of film very much like vango's blurry paintings was a style of art. What one may see as being hopelessly dark and gritty another may see as styallistically dark. It is important to note that in criticism what one thinks as crap another may think as awesome. i believe that film noir can add flavor to a film or story if it is executed correctly but then again everything is this way.
ReplyDelete-patrick kim
I heard a critic on npr call "Inception", this new film with Leonardo Decaprio, "film noir" Decaprio is going to plant a thought in a guys head through his dreams. Yesterday Sanders said "300 is a film noir". Then i looked at the films the author listed in this article and realized he could easily add another 50. My Point.....as the author kind of alluded to, the term has evolved into something so broad, its almost meaningless.
ReplyDeleteI believe that film noir is a style. If you try to compare Maltese Falcon and Alien 3, which wikipedia says is a noir-science fiction, it would be hard to set it as a genre because they are different movies. They have some of the same characteristics, but it just seems like it is a style, not a genre.
ReplyDeleteKevin Pujol
Hello everyone. This is Levon Barnett. I have to say that I do not think that film noir is just darkness - I believe that is really cutting short and somewhat undermining the importance of film noir in the development of cinematography. We in class watched few examples of this genre and I have to say that it is fascinating. I really enjoyed the "Maltese Falcon" due to its captivating yet simple nature. I am frankly growing tired of the special effects and the cinematic manipulation put forth by most modern films who are more after meeting a deadline than producing a film that captures the essence of film production. Maybe I am just too old and too simple but I really very much enjoyed watching the films with Marline Dietrich. There is something beautiful and powerful with the suspense, lighting manipulation and the music dramatization that I refuse to let go. "Out of the Past" is my favorite film noir and it highlights all the elements such as a detective, femme fetale and dramatic shadowing that kept me on the edge of my seat.
ReplyDeleteIn order to answer the question if film noir is a style of a genre I had to look both those terms up: which is loosely described as a category of speech, film or a literature (dictionary.com). When I think of film noir I think it has enough influence on cinema and enough movies were made in that nature to classify it past just simply being a style but rather a genre. Each genre had its unique style as does film noir.
In conclusion I believe film noir is a genre with its unique style and following. Also I wasn't aware that the film "300" was a film noir but after viewing it a second time it does highlight some of the shadowing, femme fetale as well as a protagonist.
I would say that film noir is a style and that its applicable to various genre. The article highlighted that many of the film noir films were created as being of a specific genre and the commonalities found in them gave rise to film noir, I perceive it as a style. I guess noir is used as a sorting mechanism and some would want it to be a category.
ReplyDeleteI believe Film Noir can be a genre to the extent that it would only consist of movies that were produced from 1940 to 1958, since Fujiwara states that is the widely accepted beginning and end. Noir would be, more or less, a broad term that describes an era of movie production since Film Noir means black film. Then there should be subsections that correlate the films into their respective categories, since not all of the films were crime dramas. (I must say I thoroughly enjoyed Sunset Boulevard 1950)
ReplyDeleteBut it seems that in modern day and age the term Noir has evolved into a different meaning when it comes to film. It seems to have taken up the role of a style which is composed from low lighting and is now being used as an adjective to describe the shots of film. Film Noir from the 1940's to the late 1950's is worthy of its own genre, and I don't believe it only appeals to those from that era. I was born in 1989 and was 16 when I was introduced to black and white film and fell in love with it. It's just awesome to see the origin of film and what people watched back in the day.